Senin, 31 Desember 2018

Wooden Boat Building Courses Uk






Welcome to the ibtc international boatbuilding training college lowestoft where we are proud to offer a wide range of traditional boatbuilding and joinery courses together with shorter courses exploring additional woodworking skills and maritime crafts.. We are a traditional boat building training college. nat and gill wilson worked closely with national historic ships uk providing training for our hlf-funded shipshape heritage training programme and i am looking forward to seeing them developing boathouse 4 as a centre of excellence and a hub for the shipshape solent skills network. The short course programme is designed so that people can join one course or, if they wish to build a more extensive training programme, a series of courses. a series of short courses is an alternative for those who are unable to join the 40 week course or who want to learn a more specific range of skills..





Online and Correspondence Courses for Boat & Yacht Design


Online and correspondence courses for boat & yacht design




Free images to download of christmas, northwest boat ...


Free images to download of christmas, northwest boat






Joansa - Fyne Boat Kits


Joansa - fyne boat kits


How to choose the best boatbuilding course for you. the key to deciding which class best suits your needs is to carefully read each course description, which incorporates much information about the course’s content and level of experience.. Boat and ship builders and repairers construct, install and repair wooden structures and fittings, and shape, position, rivet and seal metal plates and girders to form the metal structures and frameworks for marine craft.. A wooden sailing boat is perhaps the most glorious instrument the human hand can build. the job of the boatbuilder is to breathe a new life into the supple wood and sturdy metal, rope and sail..





Kayak Plans Diy






This step by step diy project is about kayak storage rack plans. i have designed this rack so you can store up to three kayaks, while saving space in your backyard or workshop.. The plans can be found on various places on the internet (see below or search for “boy scout folding kayak plans“), but the plans from macscouter.com are the ones we used. another good source is this video from phil gershwin.. i’ll show you what we did that was different from the plans at macscouter…. Free boat plans for the backyard home builder, plywood and wooden sailboats, rowboats, dinghies motorboats.





Proximo I folding kayak - Wayland Folding Kayaks UK


Proximo i folding kayak - wayland folding kayaks uk




Diy Canoe Stabilizer: Top 3 Ideas With Step-by-Step ...


Diy canoe stabilizer: top 3 ideas with step-by-step






Easy Riders Canoe Outriggers


Easy riders canoe outriggers


Diy bunk bed frame plans - wood storage shed 10x10 diy bunk bed frame plans storage shed moving company lowes storage sheds delivery and install. Plans and instructions to build a folding reflector oven kayak2go.com also has folding kayak plans available for purchase. the low cost and ease of construction. Plans for wooden boats. how to build a row boat, skiff, and many other wooden boat design plans..





Model Wooden Boat Plans Australia






Classic wooden boat is all about the history of classic wooden boats and boat builders in australia. we provide an online store for boating apparel and classic boat prints, poetry and artwork.. Boat plans bruce roberts official web site offers custom boat plans and boat kits for steel boats or aluminum boat designs, cut to size boat kits, part built boats or complete boats. bruce roberts yacht designs offer boat building project management arrangements for boats built overseas at affordable prices. sailboat and powerboat building plans and kits available for building steel boats. Please note! all the kits and plans have had to endure price rises. its only partly about local cpi and being very low to begin with, its also that beautiful lightweight bs1088 lloyds certified okoume plywood, with its nice thick surface veneers which we use in all our kits, is imported, as are our iain oughtred plans..





Uncategorized – Page 221 – planpdffree pdfboatplans


Uncategorized – page 221 – planpdffree pdfboatplans




Model Ship Plans - free download: ~Gukor Modelship


Model ship plans - free download: ~gukor modelship






» PDF Skipjack Sailboat Plans wood surfboardboat4plans


» pdf skipjack sailboat plans wood surfboardboat4plans


The wa chee we, a 1923 ditchburn, fisher-allison class racer, is briefly dunked in lake muskoka to determine its waterline. the boat is being restored at clark wooden boats, gravenhurst, ontario, canada and will be completed by june, 2012.. Float a boat plans modellers who “scratch build” are constantly on the lookout for accurate, detailed drawings for building both. Ship models or model ships are scale models of ships.they can range in size from 1/6000 scale wargaming miniatures to large vessels capable of holding people. ship modeling is a craft as old as shipbuilding itself, stretching back to ancient times when water transport was first developed..





Wooden Boat Building For Beginners






How to build wooden boats: with 16 small-boat designs (dover woodworking) [edwin monk] on amazon.com. *free* shipping on qualifying offers. written especially for the amateur boat builder, this concise guidebook contains clear, practical directions and designs for building 16 modern small boats. Drift boat plans. the transoms on these boats allow motors up to 9.5 horse for the 16', 17' and 18'.. A quick guide to some of the popular r/c boat product categories please note this is a partial list of categories only. if you don't see it here, refer to either the.





53 Baby Cradle Dimensions, Antoinette Crib Burress ...


53 baby cradle dimensions, antoinette crib burress




Ten Talents of a Model Maker


Ten talents of a model maker






Easy Woodworking Project Ideas : Bedroom Furniture Plans


Easy woodworking project ideas : bedroom furniture plans


Amateur boatbuilding & repair: the alpha2 sailing dory builders' page, mailing list and online forum; the aluminum boat and repair message board; amateurboatbuilding.com (online community for all types of amateur built boats from all over the world); the amateur yacht research society (ayrs); amphibious boats: small craft with detachable wheels (resources, ideas, and project examples for. Boatbuilding training: the alexandria seaport foundation (the craddock boatbuilding school, boatbuilding classes); the arques school of traditional boatbuilding (sausalito); barefoot wooden boats (wooden boat apprenticeships, family boatbuilding and build your own boat programs, gabriola island, british columbia); the berkshire boat building school (specializing in skin-on-frame construction. Welcome to the mayhem build masterclasses . 17 posts 1 topics last post by borden in re: welcome to the mayhe... on july 21, 2018, 07:56:46 pm vosper motor torpedo boat build.





Rc Offshore Boat Plans






This is one fun boat. i'm floored with how fast this moves with a 3s lipo. this was well worth adding to any rc collection. i will tell you my boys were excited to see this boat fly out of the water when i punched it.. Remote control (rc) boats for sale and rc (radio control) boat parts. browse our remote control boats to find electric rc boats, radio control boats, mini rc boats, r/c boats, toy boats, and radio con.... Rc boats is the perfect hobby for boaters that love insane speed. this is the guide for those interested in the hobby of racing the fastest rc boat!.





Search Powerboat plans !!! | Boat Design Net


Search powerboat plans !!! | boat design net




Exceed Vyper Electric Powered FiberGlass 920EP RACING Boat ...


Exceed vyper electric powered fiberglass 920ep racing boat






good for sailor: Where to get Woodenboat forum plans


Good for sailor: where to get woodenboat forum plans


Building radio controlled boats is a little more involved than building static model boats, but if you ask me, it's twice the fun. this page is a hub for articles that addresses some of the additional ingenuity that is required when building a model rc boat.. Modeling a to m: the 1. vorarlberg ship model club (1. vorarlberger schiffsmodellclub, vsmc, altach, austria) 1250 scale (collecting and building 1:1200/1250 scale ship models); admiralty models (sailing ship models, plans, fittings and workshops by greg herbert and david antscherl); admiralty ship model (handmade display models); ages of sail (wooden and card ship model kits, fittings, books. Boat manufacturers, boat builder dealer, fishing boat manufacturer, houseboat manufacturer, power boat manufacturer, bass boat manufacturer, pontoon boat manufacturer, trailer boat, aluminum boat, deck boat, outboard boat and inflatable boat links below are used daily by thousands to browse boat models and specifications..





Stitch And Glue Skiff Boat Plans






This directory includes all of the plans that are specifically designed for stitch and glue construction. the rc model x-1 is an inexpensive way to try out this popular contruction method.. These step by step videos show the stitch-and-glue kayak construction process. all of our boat kits are built using this "stitch-n-glue" construction. the panel shapes differ, but the stitch and glue steps are nearly identical.. 14' voyager stitch and glue sup: stand up paddleboarding is the latest rage because it is easy and it is fun! the voyager kit is for a 14' hollow wooden stand up paddleboard built using stitch and glue techniques..





Spira Boats - Easy to Build Boat Plans


Spira boats - easy to build boat plans




Spira Boats - Wood Boat Plans, Wooden Boat Plans


Spira boats - wood boat plans, wooden boat plans






Spira Boats - Wood Boat Plans, Wooden Boat Plans


Spira boats - wood boat plans, wooden boat plans


Spira international wooden boat plans. following are the stock plans available for the various types of boats, separated into the different categories.. Wooden kayak, canoe & row boat kits . pygmy wooden boat kits are lightweight, rugged & beautiful. we pride ourselves on our award-winning designs, excellent customer service, precision pre-cut panels and quality kits, which use only the highest grade of bs-1088 marine grade okoume plywood.for a list of everything that is included in a kit, click here.. Boat plans / boat kits / boatbuilding supplies & gear. if you want to build a boat, we have what you need. chesapeake light craft is your source for boat kits, kayak kits, boat plans, and boatbuilding materials.our original, award-winning boat designs include kayaks, canoes, rowing boats, dinghies, and sailboats.more than 30,000 clc boats have been built from kits and plans..





Minggu, 30 Desember 2018

Aluminium Boat Trailer Design






Welcome to legend boat builders. legend boat builders has created a niche in the aluminium boat building market, in vessels under 25-metres covering industries in commercial boats, fishing boats, work boats, boats for the off shore oil industry and charter boats.. Welcome to mackay multi-link – australia’s premier boat trailer designer & manufacturer. we build boat trailers for all types of boats – aluminium, fibreglass,ski boats yachts, personal watercraft and trailer sailors... Custom alloy boat builders based in gisborne, new zealand. the white pointer range of boats cater for the fisherman who knows what he wants in a boat. white pointer boats focus on quality construction, superior sea keeping shape and durability..





Need help with ID/specs - 14' Blue Fin aluminum Page: 1 ...


Need help with id/specs - 14' blue fin aluminum page: 1




12 ft aluminum boat and 8hp johnson for sale in Chilliwack ...


12 ft aluminum boat and 8hp johnson for sale in chilliwack






Aluminium Long Boats - Aluminium Long Boats


Aluminium long boats - aluminium long boats


Duralite will manufacture a custom trailer to suit your pride and joy. we specialise in high quality aluminium boat trailers and regardless of what type of vessel you have we can build a trailer to suit.. Dickey boats offer a design and build custom boat service.. Quintrex aluminium boats are australia's best selling boat brand and with our range of quintrex aluminium boats for sale, you won't be disappointed..





Cruise Ship Deck Plans Anthem Of The Seas






Looking for cruise ship deck plans? cruise critic has over 119,348 cabin reviews associated with 365 cruise ship deck plans to help you explore the ship and find the ideal cabin for your next cruise!. Here's a list of cruise ship deck plans (ship layouts, stateroom locations).... ship map, ship deck plan, cruise ship floor plan, cruise deck plan. whenever possible, the deck plans of the cruise ships are from the cruise lines themselves, & if we find them, we are providing more than one set of deck plans.. Deck plans. all of the world's major cruise ships are listed below, by cruise line. click the ship name for deck plans..





Royal Caribbean's Anthem of the Seas Keel Laid


Royal caribbean's anthem of the seas keel laid




Rhapsody of the Seas Deck Plans, Diagrams, Pictures, Video


Rhapsody of the seas deck plans, diagrams, pictures, video






Innovative New Ships From Royal Caribbean – Quantum and ...


Innovative new ships from royal caribbean – quantum and


Anthem of the seas joins royal caribbean’s fleet as the second ship in the innovative new quantum class. to make anthem of the seas a truly special offering at sea, royal caribbean enlisted celebrity experts in the entertainment, design and fitness fields to help create an interior design plan and some of the exclusive entertainment options onboard.. Here's a list of many port ship schedules (port cruise ship calendars). we will continue to add new links to this page. see how many ships or which ships are in port with you. the schedules sometimes contain the berth or anchorage info..





Jarcat Catamaran Plans






Multihulls: 2hulls inc. (catamaran, power catamaran & trimaran broker dealers, fort lauderdale, florida) building the aluminum catamarans osram vii and osram viii; advanced multihull designs (amd, high speed passenger and vehicle ferries); african cats (maker of cruising sail and power catamarans, holland); all american marine (aluminum teknicraft catamaran work, passenger and pleasure. Mailing lists, message boards & wikis: the 1,000 islands fun rowing club; 1staboard (a boat transport message board); the afterguard (an international forum for discussing worldwide shipbuilding events, policies, and practices); the age of nelson forum; all the world's battlecruisers (a discussion board dedicated to battlecruisers and other warships); the alpha2 sailing dory builders' mailing.





Living life to the fullest- here now and at Kalihiwai ...


Living life to the fullest- here now and at kalihiwai




jarcat 6 catamaran - Jarcat Jarcat 6 2005 for sale


Jarcat 6 catamaran - jarcat jarcat 6 2005 for sale






View topic - Trailer wanted to buy


View topic - trailer wanted to buy






Steel Hull Houseboat Plans






Simple houseboat plans to start building your own houseboats. houseboat plans to get planning and building. the houseboat plans section is constantly expanding, so in order to get a good overview, i've included these to show the design possibilities.. Study plans are available for some of these designs - remember a study plan gives you more details and a wood materials list on an a1 sheet, so that you can cost out a project before ordering the full plans.. Philip c. bolger (december 3, 1927 – may 24, 2009), prolific boat designer, was born and lived in gloucester, massachusetts.he began work full-time as a draftsman for boat designers lindsay lord and then john hacker in the early 1950s..





32 Incredible and Unique Houseboat Designs (PHOTOS)


32 incredible and unique houseboat designs (photos)




Wigh: Plywood boat building book


Wigh: plywood boat building book






Pontoons and floating systems - floats and floating platforms


Pontoons and floating systems - floats and floating platforms


I’m jealous! seeing a houseboat on airbnb was actually what lead me to research, but i haven’t found one to stay in yet. let me know how it goes!. Rocky topography helps shelter this small modern cabin on a fjord in southeast norway. others would have been tempted to open up the site by clearing the bushes and blasting away some of the rock. instead, architects lund hagem designed the tiny cabin to fit between the boulders and wind-gnarled trees, tucking it against a…. Printable calendars the fact that the solar year (of nearly 365 1/4 days) does not contain an exact number of days or of lunar months caused much trouble in keeping the calendar accurate..





Sabtu, 29 Desember 2018

Rc Mono Boat Plans






Free rc model mono hull boat plans if this is your first visit, be sure to check out the faq by clicking the link above. you may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.. Rc power boats and radio control boat plans for free download find best value and selection for your rc boat mono hull search on ebay. world's leading marketplace.. boats hulls abm ab marine boats hulls manufacturer of high quality performance rc boats. new mono hull... Rc model boat plans big rc models: radio controlled boats, large scale rc, big rc models offers large scale model boats, rc helicopters, radio control airplanes, boats and cars..





PDF DIY Rc Boat Build Download diy fainting couch ...


Pdf diy rc boat build download diy fainting couch




Homemade RC Boat (re)Build - YouTube


Homemade rc boat (re)build - youtube






IWEMA Enterprise. The power of RC multi hull sailing ...


Iwema enterprise. the power of rc multi hull sailing


The boat i made is from the category "free rc model mono hull boat plans" - model "wildthing". before you can download them, you have to register to the forum. when downloaded, you have a .rar file with the plans in it.. Downloads category description files; ebooks: rc boat related ebooks: 15: download free rc model mono hull boat plans: 12: free rc model tunnel hull plans: download free rc model tunnel hull plans: 4: free other rc model boat plans: download free model sailing boats, tug boats plans: 11: downloads' statistics. we have 90 files in 5 categories.. Find great deals on ebay for rc boat plans in radio control boats and watercraft toys. shop with confidence..





Boat Designs Plans Free






Free boat plans from "science and mechanics", "boat builder handbook" and other very old magazines. trouble viewing? try the low band width index.. boat plans from science and mechanics and boat builder handbooks.. Instant access to 518 different plans - from small wooden boat plans to large sailboat plans - free boat plans. Click on buttons above for online study plans: welcome to our site there are buttons above that link to study plans below is a knowledge base of frequently asked questions about modern boat building techniques, boat types, hull shapes, sail rigs, hull materials, seaworthiness, and lots of interesting ideas and observations.





50 m Fast Crew Boat 5009 for transporting crew


50 m fast crew boat 5009 for transporting crew




Night Heron | Guillemot Kayaks - Small Wooden Boat Designs


Night heron | guillemot kayaks - small wooden boat designs






Sailing. Olympic Sailboat Classes Royalty Free Stock Photo ...


Sailing. olympic sailboat classes royalty free stock photo


Welcome to spira international home-built boat plans. spira international offers a wide variety of different power, rowing, and sailing skiffs, dories, and other boat designs that are simple to build, rugged and seaworthy.. The woodenboat forum is sponsored by woodenboat publications, publisher of woodenboat magazine. the forum is a free service, and much like the "free" content on public radio, we hope you will support woodenboat by subscribing to this fabulous magazine.. A guide to timber boat plans. is it your dream to own your own boat? imagine for a moment that it is actually a reality, and you can take it out to the lake on a sunny sunday afternoon..





Admiralty Ship Models Plans Gratis






The swan class of ships has proved popular among ship modelers. with the advent of david antscherl's set of plans these ships have become readily accessible for scratch- building ship modelers. below are examples of several swan class models.our featured swan class model this month is being constructed by william maxwell. he describes it below.. Model boat & ship plans. amati plans. cap maquettes plans. corel plans . euromodel plans. marine modelling international. mantua plans . mamoli plans. model boat magazine plans. new maquettes plans. panart plans . sergal plans . caldercraft admiralty paints recently viewed. A diorama i am calling "decision of the admiralty board." is a little different that the wooden ship models i usually make. back in the time when ships were of wood and sail, for a ship to be part of the royal navy, the admiralty board had to approve it..





























Ship models or model ships are scale models of ships.they can range in size from 1/6000 scale wargaming miniatures to large vessels capable of holding people. ship modeling is a craft as old as shipbuilding itself, stretching back to ancient times when water transport was first developed.. You can reach us via phone, text, voicemail, fax, email or post: please note: visits are by appointment only; admiralty ship models; 7 kings drive. Ship plans collection our collection of over 1 million ship plans dates back to the early 18th century. it includes the admiralty collection which holds around 8000 plans representing approximately 10,000 ships..





Wooden Boat Plans Cuddy Cabin






Welcome to bartender boats! the bartender, a boat first used for u.s. coast guard service in the pacific nw over 40 years ago, is a practical, safe, and economical rough water boat which has been recognized worldwide for use recreationally and in a variety of demanding industries including the alaska oil industry and australian surf patrol.. The woodenboat forum is sponsored by woodenboat publications, publisher of woodenboat magazine. the forum is a free service, and much like the "free" content on public radio, we hope you will support woodenboat by subscribing to this fabulous magazine.. Af3 plans come with two sailplans: the original sharpie spritsail (as seen in the photo below) and a balanced lugsail option. af3, cuddy sharpie, 16' x 5', 250 pounds empty.





Great Alaskan 28ft Boat Build: Cuddy Cabin is almost ...


Great alaskan 28ft boat build: cuddy cabin is almost




Looking for Outboard cabin cruiser plans | Wooden boat plans


Looking for outboard cabin cruiser plans | wooden boat plans






Vintage Cuddy Cabin Boats Related Keywords - Vintage Cuddy ...


Vintage cuddy cabin boats related keywords - vintage cuddy


Pro-craft custom wide body (300mm wider) ex tassie trawler work boat, super stable, performs like 4.2mtr tinnie! has lugs to lift of with sling, 20hp yamaha flat floor, all safety gear well set up trailer, boat just glides off effortlessly both trailer and boat registered selling as i bought larger boat.. Search results: between $10,000 and $20,000. 269 boats were found that matched your search. scroll down and click on the id or boat description to view.. Study plans are available for these designs - remember a study plan gives you more details and a wood materials list usually on two a1 sheets, so that you can cost out a project before ordering the full plans..





Jumat, 28 Desember 2018

Jon Boat Casting Deck Plans






What is considered low hours on a boat? in a vehicle, 12k miles year seems the accepted mileage, and anything much below that is typically considered "low miles".. With the plan you have created in mind, design a support structure that will fit your needs for the deck. if you are not going have any compartments in you deck floor, i recommend placing 2" x 2"s that span across the width of the boat (ribs) at the height that you want the boat deck to sit.. Pontoon boat seats. when it’s time to replace your pontoon furniture, wholesale marine is the name to know! if your pontoon boat seats are looking shabby, it’s probably time for replacement. pontoon boat furniture is among the easiest to replace due to the craft’s open layout..





Jon Boat Modifications Related Keywords - Jon Boat ...


Jon boat modifications related keywords - jon boat




Tricked Out Aluminum Boats Related Keywords - Tricked Out ...


Tricked out aluminum boats related keywords - tricked out






Jon Boat Floor Plans – Gurus Floor


Jon boat floor plans – gurus floor


Issuu is a digital publishing platform that makes it simple to publish magazines, catalogs, newspapers, books, and more online. easily share your publications and get them in front of issuu’s. Find your motor boat easily amongst the 7,961 products from the leading brands (walker bay, pursuit boats, boston whaler,) on nauticexpo, the boating and maritime industry specialist for your professional purchases.. Jaws is a 1975 american thriller film directed by steven spielberg and based on peter benchley's 1974 novel of the same name.in it, a giant man-eating great white shark attacks beachgoers on amity island, a fictional new england summer resort town, prompting police chief martin brody (roy scheider) to hunt it with the help of a marine biologist (richard dreyfuss) and a professional shark.





Pontoon Boat Design






A pontoon boat is a flattish boat that relies on pontoons to float. these pontoons (also called tubes) contain a lot of reserve buoyancy and allow designers to create massive deck plans fitted with all sorts of accommodations, such as expansive lounge areas, stand-up bars, and sun pads.better tube design has also allowed builders to put ever-increasing amounts of horsepower on the stern.. Custom design your pontoon boat graphics in minutes! welcome to pontoonboatgraphics.com - a full service pontoon boat graphics company. pontoon boatgraphics.com is the premier supplier of custom boat graphics in the country.. Comprehensive review of a popular inflatable pontoon boat including the pros, the cons and the best places to buy..





Q Series Luxury Pontoon Boats by Bennington


Q series luxury pontoon boats by bennington




2017 R25 Swingback Pontoon Boats


2017 r25 swingback pontoon boats






STEEL DECK BARGE is a 110' 0" Bradford Marine Bahamas ...


Steel deck barge is a 110' 0" bradford marine bahamas


Pontoon boat rentals and tours is located on lake murray in lexington, sc. we offer pontoon boat rental services, boat tours of the lake, and many fun things to do while boating on lake murray.. Superior pontoon rentals - munising mi boat rentals explore pictured rocks, lighthouses, secluded beaches on lake superior. munising, located on the south shore of lake superior, boasts the glory of the pictured rocks national lakeshore.. The pontoon saloon™ is nashville’s premier party barge on the cumberland river. step aboard the 50 foot floating saloon equipped with a sound system, server, and plenty of cooler room for your beverage of choice..





Model Boat Plans For Beginners






Introducing: myboatplans - "instant boat building!" the complete boat builders resource. over 518 detailed boat plans, schematics, cutting patterns, material lists for all types of boats.. Call 541.543.6867 9am to 6pm pst m-f: 18 foot fly fisherman - model 18ff: this boat is designed by don hill for fly fishing the deschutes and south fork of the snake rivers.this is a big water craft with the unique design of carrying two passengers up front, one in the rear, as well as the oarsman.. A scale model aircraft is a reduced scale replica of a real flying machine – a plane, glider, helicopter, etc. model aircraft is a broader term, referring to any small size unmanned aircraft. basically, there are two major aircraft model groups: flying and non-flying. flying model aircraft range from toy gliders built of foam polystyrene or cardstock to powered rc planes usually made of.





Model fishing boat plans ~ Shena


Model fishing boat plans ~ shena




Billing Boats (B534) Boulogne Etaples Fishing Cutter ...


Billing boats (b534) boulogne etaples fishing cutter






Free model boat plans australia ~ Sailing Build plan


Free model boat plans australia ~ sailing build plan


Product description. highest quality, factory sealed item from the manufacturer. the heller model is the english admiral lord horatio nelson's "h.m.s. victory", three-decker-vessel that was involved in the trafalgar battle and is the royal navy fifth vessel of that name.. Avispa ref: mm2071 avispa: a glynn guest design for a steam powered semi-scale torpedo boat destroyer. this is a two sheet plan for a radio controlled model.. How fast does it go? for estimating the speed for small outboard planing boats see planing speed boat chart. this chart should be used for general estimates only. joe carozzoni offered a suggestion - when builders list the engine (.e.g cid/hp) and propeller size/pitch - it's not much help unless they give a.